“When Fascism Comes to America it Will be Wrapped in White Plastic Armor and Carrying a BlasTech E-11 Blaster Rifle” — Sinclair Lucas
Suppose tomorrow the Bush administration announces plans to deploy thousands of Homeland Security Troops to American cities, to walk the streets armed in the search for un-American, possibly terrorist activities (such as taking photos where there isn’t anything obviously pretty to be taking a photo of, being overly swarthy, videotaping cops and Homeland Security Troops, etc). These guys would only be answerable to the DHS, and they would be recruited from the likes of Blackwater, Wackenhut, and so forth.
Obviously there would be some outrage, yeah? I mean, not as much as there should be, but a lot of folks wouldn’t care for this at all.
Now imagine that these troops are outfitted exactly like Stormtroopers from Star Wars.
What percentage of geeks would declare that this was awesome?
What percentage of non geeks?
Photo by Keelia Liptak
What is it with Stormtroopers? How have we, as a culture, come to love the faceless face of oppression? Sure, in the movies they bump their heads and can’t hit a sidewalk with a can of paint and talk about that new BT-16 and do the Wilhelm scream and all, but it’s still pretty clear who they are and what they represent.
But people can’t get enough of them. Go to any sci-fi or comic convention and you’ll see several people in meticulously crafted Stormtrooper armor. In fact, there’s a group devoted to this, which is now also marching in things like Fourth of July parades (which is where the first image was taken). Seriously, someone thought Stormtroopers in a Fourth of July parade was a good idea.
This summer there’s a CGI “Clone Wars” movie coming out.
The guy on the left is Anakin Skywalker, who will become Darth Vader, right hand man to the evil Emperor. The troops in the background are the guys who will eventually become the Stormtroopers. Hopefully Anakin and the Clonetroopers can use all their cool ships and weapons and stuff to defeat…the bad guys? As with Attack of the Clones, are we really going to once again be expected to root for the people that we already know are going to enslave the galaxy?
But fascism isn’t just wicked awesome, it can also be dead sexy.
Once the helmet is on you won’t see the face of your oppressor but you’ll see her hot hot midriff and her thermal detonators. This is female empowerment.
It can also be fun! Here are some of the folks who kill for the Empire having a little downtime!
(Picture by waihey on Flickr)
In that last photo, an argument can obviously be made for satire, for letting the context play against the characters as a way to defang and ridicule totalitarianism. It’s also kind of funny!
Still, here’s the 118th Rose Parade. What’s the satirical message here? These guys were trained by a colonel in the real Army.
I’m not suggesting there’s some kind of conspiracy afoot to make us more tolerant of (and, in fact, enthusiastic about) a fascist society.
I’m suggesting that such a conspiracy probably wouldn’t be necessary.
Tags: assholes_geeks_love, fascism, stormtroopers
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I have to agree. I predict some responses along the lines of you reading too much into this, but I think your reasoning is pretty impeccable. I mean, these guys are so clearly supposed to evoke fascism that they were named Stormtroopers. Playing Twister? Yeah, takes the piss out of the goons a bit, potentially funny. Marching in lockstep with flags? Holy shit, is irony dead or what?
I think geeks tend to have a certain amount of fascism buried inside. I can’t really think of any other explanations why no-nonsense, stone cold killers are such a staple of the general geek mythos from Wolverine to Bigby from fables to anything Frank Miller has ever written, or why aesthetics right out of the Nazi playbook are so prevalent (also, has anyone noticed swastikas pop up, with no apparent context, in 90% of Miller’s stuff?). There are certainly people who buck the trend, but this whole weird “will to power” bit seems endemic to geekdom. Since fascism in practice is often weak, ostracized people finding inspiration in a superman ideal, this makes a lot of sense.
As for the assholes geeks love tag, man, that’s an all day project if I’ve ever heard of one. Penn Jillete is a solid pick. Nobody bothered telling the guy before he did “Bullshit” that Libertarianism is not a science, and you can’t ‘disprove’ the ADA or vegetarianism the way you can disprove Feng Shui’s effectiveness. I mean, the ADA; I’m sorry if you’ve seen me harp on this before, but you have to be a real cold hearted prick to have beef with the existence of handicap spaces. Really.
Comment by Otro Dave — July 11, 2008 @ 6:56 am
The fan fictioning of beloved genre stuff. They just NEED to “reform” the bad guys…
Comment by Ken Lowery — July 11, 2008 @ 8:56 am
It’s about heritage, not hate!
If you overlook the mass killings and whatnot, the Empire did have its good points and Vader, like Rommel, was an “honorable” man.
Comment by Andrew Weiss — July 11, 2008 @ 9:22 am
In a way, I get it. Movie bad guys tend to get the better-looking ships and accessories. (Though there’s no sweeter ride than an X-Wing!) Plus, faceless authority is easier to pull off than hot rebel princess or young, studly Jedi.
There are a few 501st Legionnaires in my area. Usually they show up at Free Comic Book Day and the like, but a couple of weeks ago I saw one of them in full Stormtrooper regalia at the “Taste of Champaign-Urbana.”
I think the chain of thought that leads to fiberglass fascists stomping around the county fair goes something like this:
“I like ‘Star Wars.’”
“Stormtroopers have cool armor.”
“Wouldn’t it be cool to have my own suit of armor?”
“Hey, it turns out that someone will make it for me!”
“This is great! I’m hotter than a Dewback at the Tatooine equator and I can’t see shit, but I look AWESOME!”
“Wow, that was really expensive. And Halloween comes only once a year…”
“You have a suit of Stormtrooper armor too?! Let’s hang out! Make sure to bring some friends.”
“We’re a service organization. Dedicated to charity and cool armor.”
“Our trip to the children’s ward isn’t until next month. But there’s a sweetcorn festival this weekend!”
Comment by David Thiel — July 11, 2008 @ 11:05 am
Fantastic post, Dave. Just the adoration of the word Stormtrooper makes me always think of Randal’s plan in Clerks 2 to “take back the word ‘porch-monkey.’”
That said, I’d totally show up to watch a parade of guys dressed up as Daleks.
Comment by Bully — July 11, 2008 @ 11:39 am
I wouldn’t call Vader honorable. I mean he was a child killer who later moved up to torture and aiding in mass genocide whose act of redemption was to throw his boss (who he’d been making plans to kill anyways) off a bridge. Not exactly the same as Rommel…
But excellent post. I hadn’t even really thought about the inherent wrongness of using Stormtroopers for charity events and what not…
Comment by LurkerWithout — July 11, 2008 @ 12:07 pm
I wouldn’t call Vader honorable. I mean he was a child killer who later moved up to torture and aiding in mass genocide whose act of redemption was to throw his boss (who he’d been making plans to kill anyways) off a bridge. Not exactly the same as Rommel…
You really have no clue about irony, do you?
Comment by Kevin Church — July 11, 2008 @ 12:11 pm
I agree with David, above. I don’t know that you can assume that because most people love stormtroopers, they love (or accept) facism. I think most people see stormtroopers and think “Yay Star Wars!” and don’t really connect the dots. But what you’re also getting to, I think, is that it’s THAT failure to delve deeper into meaning that’s sort of leading us to crumble.
Comment by Rande — July 11, 2008 @ 4:12 pm
Just to be clear, though…while I do think there’s nothing *intentionally* fascist going on with the 501st, I don’t disagree with the point of Dave L.’s post. They provided much of the con security for the two Star Wars Celebrations in Indianapolis, and while that was funny at first, the implications of stormtroopers being responsible for actual security and crowd control eventually began to feel…wrong.
And it really is weird when they show up at the food fair.
Comment by David Thiel — July 11, 2008 @ 5:02 pm
You speak truth, Dave Lartigue.
Comment by Dave Campbell — July 11, 2008 @ 6:01 pm
Dude! I gotta get my wife some of that StormBoober Armor!
Comment by Blasterhappy — July 11, 2008 @ 9:44 pm
I blame Lucas himself.
When he was young and idealistic he wrote a lovely hero’s tale. Likening himself to Luke Skywalker.
However twenty years later he told us the real story.
The story of the boy who thought he was the chosen one when he started out but who discovers in the end he is Darth Vader.
One might say, the prequels are an autobiographical work.
Lucas’s hero is Anakin. He does not want to tell us the story of Luke post-ROTJ.
He’s only interested in telling us Anakin’s story (and more Anakin stories, and more Vader stories – as in his latest animated series and video game).
Notice that everone wants to emulate the Stormtroopers of their childhood stories (when they weren’t clones yet). Not the stormtroopers from his prequels – the ones that ARE clones.
Comment by Armand Asante — July 13, 2008 @ 5:55 pm
Great stuff, Dave! The insidiousness of the whole thing is the striking element.
I blame Andrew Ainsworth. Shouldn’t have made them so cute.
Comment by The Underpants Monster — July 13, 2008 @ 8:54 pm
>> These guys would only be answerable to the DHS
I take it you’ve never seen a local agency tell the FBI, DHS, etc. to take a flying f#@% at a rolling donut? You probably won’t, because to save everyone’s face it is done behind closed doors.
Local law enforcement can and will arrest anyone except active military in full uniform and equipment, in the performance of their duties. The Posse Comitatus Act and present military procedures will not allow military boots on the ground outside a base except in a disaster declaration, riot or rebellion.
Unless the fix is in, as during New Orleans where local police opened fire on a crowd trying to get out of the city. Google “Gretna police Katrina” for details. Or you can look at the New Orleans PD looting during Katrina for another lovely example.
I’m far more afraid of local law enforcement abusing their powers than of hypothetical Federal goons. You should be too.
>> and they would be recruited from the likes of Blackwater, Wackenhut, and so forth.
Blackwater people wouldn’t be caught dead in this kind of uniform. They want their cool toys and have damaged senses of humor. (Otherwise they would work for a more profitable PMC.)
Wackenhut people (except the nuclear guys) probably wouldn’t FIT. I’ve never seen Stormtrooper armor in “3XL chunky” anywhere in my Galls or Quartermaster catalogs. Similar issue applies to almost any private security company, because with rare exceptions, no one requires physicals and height-weight tables would be discriminatory.
Fascism, when and if it hits the streets of America, will be wildly popular and dressed in digicam.
Comment by Alan — July 13, 2008 @ 8:56 pm
Jeez, you don’t suppose for one minute that perhaps a member or two of the 501st possesses a sense of irony?
Yes, I’m a guy who occasionally dresses up in white ABS and pretends to be a stormtrooper. Partly, because I do indeed love Star Wars. And I’m a geek. No argument there. But give me a break. I’m well aware of the symbolism behind the stormtroopers, and I don’t think for one minute we’re (intentional or not) promoting fascism.
Say what you will about me, I’m not going to argue with closed minds. I’m just saying you’re a tad off base.
Comment by Guy in white — July 13, 2008 @ 8:59 pm
Dude.. go back on your meds.. the paranoia is back
Comment by RJ — July 13, 2008 @ 9:00 pm
i’m one of said geeks in white. in fact, i *think* that first photo is from one of the parades i was in myself.
yeah, we’re all aware that we’re “the bad guys”. but i don’t think for a moment that anyone in the 501st is trying to be a tyrannical regime, nor do i think that lucasfilm or the men in black are positioning us as such.
some times a butterfly is a symbol of change. sometimes a butterfly is just a butterfly. not everything needs to make a statement. sometimes fun is just fun, and entertainment is just entertainment.
Comment by stormtrooperguy — July 13, 2008 @ 9:15 pm
Ok I too am a guy in white in the 501st I read info wars and am well intune with what is going on now..but in 1076 when the movie was out it was NO like it is now who could have seen that comming.Let us not forget what the 501st does,raseing money for charitys and making kids smile.oh and guess what i am in the military and a cop as well so the idea of doing real life security at an event is no diffrent than what I do now..blame Bush for erodeing your rights away not the 501st with the 4th amendment and posie comotatus out of the way the stage is set they won’t be in white they will be in camo and carrying M-4s.
Comment by Another man in white — July 13, 2008 @ 9:46 pm
Now that we’ve found your article, expect 2 men dressed in suits to appear at your door shortly. You obviously know too much about the 501st Legion now, and must be silenced.
Comment by White Armor'd Spy — July 13, 2008 @ 10:29 pm
You might want to research what the 501st is all about and what we stand for before stating anything about Fascism.
Comment by Lucious Talvloinne — July 13, 2008 @ 10:39 pm
You probably also should have done a little research on those you are casting bad light on, since the 501st donates thousands of dollars EVERY YEAR to organizations like Make-a-wish foundation, and the Jimmy Fund.
Comment by TR-3456 — July 13, 2008 @ 10:45 pm
You probably also should have done a little research on those you are casting bad light on, since the 501st donates thousands of dollars EVERY YEAR to organizations like Make-a-wish foundation, and the Jimmy Fund.
…after dressing as space Nazis.
Comment by Kevin Church — July 13, 2008 @ 11:32 pm
People don’t love Stormtroopers because they represent fascism and oppression. People love Stormtroopers because they represent Star Wars. People love to see any Star Wars character, or for that matter characters from any other movie. Not because of what the characters represent in the movie, but because it’s pretty damned impressive to see people walking around looking like they just walked off a movie screen. There’s no intent to advocate fascism by marching as a Star Wars bad guy. We aren’t tricking the public into accepting uniformed enforcers of totalitarianism on their streets. We march, go to conventions, etc because it’s fun. And as mentioned earlier, the 501st donates thousands of dollars to charity organizations. Unless that is just a front to hide our true intentions?
As far as the 4th of July parade goes, how is it a big deal? What makes it not a good idea? For your information, I am the trooper in the first picture of your article. I marched in the parade, and so did puppeteers, Vermont secessionists, musicians, dancers, chefs, and librarians pushing book carts. How is having Stormtroopers march in the parade bad? Don’t think of it as advocating fascism, think of it as celebrating the freedom in this country to create such a fantastic series of movies.
As far as the Rose Bowl goes, are you trying to suggest that being trained to walk in step by an Army Colonel makes those troopers pawns of the fascistic conspirators? God forbid they try to look professional when they march to represent all the nations that comprise one of the largest costuming organizations in the world. And who better to teach a group of men to march together than an Army Reserves Drill Instructor? OK, a Marine drill instructor, maybe, but you get the point.
Seriously man, lighten up. This country won’t turn out in the streets cheering for the implementation of fascism if it comes dressed in Digis, ACUs, black suits, or even Stormtrooper armor. To assume so is either a lack of faith in your fellow Americans or an overly pessimistic sense of paranoia.
Comment by Totalitarian Trooper — July 13, 2008 @ 11:42 pm
…after dressing as space Nazi
This coming from someone who thinks a sewer rat with wings is the best thing he’s ever seen.
We’re a bunch of nerds having fun and entertaining the public. At least we aren’t stealing copyrighted images like the blogger of this article. We have permission from Lucas to use their imagery, he didn’t have our permission to use our images. when he took them from our website.
http://501neg.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=929&pos=74
Comment by TR-3456 — July 13, 2008 @ 11:43 pm
There’s a character in Gipi’s graphic novel Garage Band who collects Nazi memorabilia and uniforms, at one point showing up with a salvaged propaganda poster and Sieg Heiling it in front of everyone. One guy gets mad, and the other just rolls his eyes and tells him to forget it, because he doesn’t even know what the Nazis were all about.
He just really likes the uniforms.
Comment by Chris Sims — July 13, 2008 @ 11:45 pm
This coming from someone who thinks a sewer rat with wings is the best thing he’s ever seen.
At least I know joy that doesn’t come from dressing up as someone who participated in fictional genocide.
Comment by Kevin Church — July 13, 2008 @ 11:47 pm
No, the joy comes from seeing happy children when they see their favorite villians, and knowing that the thousands of dollars we donate do a whole lot towards making the world a better place.
Comment by TR-3456 — July 13, 2008 @ 11:51 pm
No, the joy comes from seeing happy children when they see their favorite villians, and knowing that the thousands of dollars we donate do a whole lot towards making the world a better place.
I’m sure, “TR-3456.” I’m sure.
Comment by Kevin Church — July 13, 2008 @ 11:56 pm
“I think geeks tend to have a certain amount of fascism buried inside.”
Bullshit. Not only are we talking about fictional scenarios that they’re fascinated with, but there are many comics and novels considered “Geeky” which are very anarchist, such as V for Vendetta, as well as representations of every other type of political leaning. That kind of sweeping statement shows a ridiculous ignorance of the subculture you are attacking. Simplifying things to make easier targets out of them is a symptom of a mind which is itself inclined towards reactionary and xenophobic philosophies.
Comment by Gabriel — July 13, 2008 @ 11:59 pm
It sounds like a lot of you are book-burning, neo-conservative wastes of space to me.
You are all poster children for fetal alcohol syndrome. Get a grip on what you are saying/doing here. It’s freaking entertainment!
If people want to dress up as Stormtroopers from STAR WARS, let them! Don’t use it as an excuse to vent your new found ability to write a blog and use Google image searches while you troll the fuck out of the internet with your petty excuse for an article.
…Oh right! The blog owner appears to be an avid Lego collector whose plethora of toys include Star Wars kits. Right, sounds like you’re a pretty ‘fascist geek’ to me for spending what you do on purchasing and storing LEGOS, which I’m sure you lovingly keep in your mother’s basement where you sit naked at your computer wanking to Anne Coulter’s adams apple.
Next conspiracy: REPTILIAN AGENTS WERE BEHIND THE 9/11 ATTACKS! GO!
Comment by Oh give me a break... — July 14, 2008 @ 12:12 am
Kevin Church – You just don’t get it, do you? You don’t seem to understand that we do this to have fun and to make other people, especially kids, happy. I’ve been a Star Wars geek for years, and I dress up as a Stormtrooper because I thought it would be a lot of fun and I was told about all the charity work that the 501st does. It has nothing to do with the fact that the Stormtroopers are evil, or that the Empire was a totalitarian regime. It has to do with having a good time with fellow geeks, and making other people happy. And to assume that we are doing it because we advocate the brutal totalitarianism and genocidal methods of the Galactic Empire is simply asinine.
Comment by Totalitarian Trooper — July 14, 2008 @ 12:15 am
Also…V for Vendetta wasn’t anarchist as it was -GASP- **anti-Fascist**. And how come you aren’t delving into the more recent political nightmare of the Marvel Civil War? I didn’t hear many geeks roar about that one either.
Comment by Oh give me a break... — July 14, 2008 @ 12:18 am
You just don’t get it, do you?
Yeah, I’m the one having problems with imagery here.
Comment by Kevin Church — July 14, 2008 @ 12:21 am
Yeah, I’m the one having problems with imagery here.
No, your the one who can’t distinguish between reality and fantasy.
Comment by Drake — July 14, 2008 @ 12:25 am
You know, you could also dress up like Jawas and still give money to charity.
It’s not, nor has it ever been, a question of your actions, but of your symbols. There’s a disparity between the two…from a certain point of view.
Comment by Jeff S — July 14, 2008 @ 12:27 am
Actually Kevin, The reason I joined the 501st was because I saw the good that they were doing, and the fun they were having doing it. I actually don’t dress in my costume all that often. Instead I more often collect money for charity photo ops, or sit behind the camera talking the pictures of kids sticking Darth Vader with a toy light saber, so you can keep your paranoia of our taking over the world in our white plastic armor. with our fake plastic guns. It’s absolutely ridiculous
Comment by TR-3456 — July 14, 2008 @ 12:31 am
Jeff, we have people in our group that dress as Jawas, and tuskan raiders, and our sister organization dresses as the rebels and often marches with is.
Comment by TR-3456 — July 14, 2008 @ 12:32 am
“You know, you could also dress up like Jawas and still give money to charity.”
We do. The 501st is an organization that doesn’t just have Stormtroopers.
Comment by White Armor'd Spy — July 14, 2008 @ 12:33 am
I think it’s funny that pointing out to people that they dress up as Space Nazis really honks them off.
Comment by Kevin Church — July 14, 2008 @ 12:34 am
Then again TR-3456, if we CAN take over with just plastic guns…We could totally start this revolution!
Comment by White Armor'd Spy — July 14, 2008 @ 12:34 am
LOL White Armor’d Spy. I’ll start ordering that ABS….
Comment by TR-3456 — July 14, 2008 @ 12:37 am
“Yeah, I’m the one having problems with imagery here.”
You’re the one having a problem grasping the concept of what it is that our organization does. We dress as Stormtroopers not to advocate the agenda of the *fictional* Galactic Empire, but to celebrate a great series of movies while doing some good for our community. But you can’t understand that. You see Stormtroopers and automatically assume we are pushing for a fascist state hell-bent on domination and genocide. Your closed-minded ignorance renders any further discussion futile.
Comment by Totalitarian Trooper — July 14, 2008 @ 12:38 am
“You know, you could also dress up like Jawas and still give money to charity. ”
I’m kind of tall for a Jawa myself, but the 501st does have Jawas, and a host of other Star Wars characters aside from Stormtroopers. Then, as TR-3456 mentioned, our sister organization dresses as the Rebels and other “good guy” characters.
Comment by Totalitarian Trooper — July 14, 2008 @ 12:45 am
The Fact that you did not know that we do have Jawas sand people and EVERY character from star wars shows you did no research and are talking from your rear try researching before you label people.
Comment by Tk2505 — July 14, 2008 @ 1:07 am
Mea culpa on the Jawas.
For the record, I applaud your charitable giving. While I may not know every one of your costumes, I do know that you are an active volunteer organization that supports worthwhile causes and that the attention to film-accuracy you pay to your costumes is impressive.
I’m not, nor is anybody here, maligning that. And I can’t speak for anyone else, but I acknowledge that dressing like stromtroopers doesn’t automatically make you or anyone else who does it evil, or clones of Jango Fett, or even the rushed, later-era clones grown in Spaarti cloning cylinders, nor do I assert that you suffer from the so-called ‘clone madness’ that plagued the latter. Simply that you are people who dress as stormtroopers. And Jawas. And Tusken Raiders. And Rebels. And maybe even Camaasi or Aing-Tii or Krevaaki as well.
I don’t think that reflects badly on you. Do what you want. If I put on a Hutt costume, that doesn’t make me a hermaphroditic crime lord (or does it?).
The discussion here involves the inherent disconnect between your organization’s mission and its symbology. And yes, though you have people dressed as Jawas and Selonians and Dejarik tables and droids, your own branding even associates you most closely with Imperial infantry soldiers, fictional characters who are, almost without exception, not good guys. That they are not good guys and you (meaning the 501st) are is a bit of a disconnect and that so few people find it bothersome has more to do with our culture as a whole than any book burning activities you participate in.
Comment by Jeff S — July 14, 2008 @ 2:11 am
That they are not good guys and you (meaning the 501st) are is a bit of a disconnect and that so few people find it bothersome has more to do with our culture as a whole than any book burning activities you participate in.
I really have to disagree about there being a disconnect. When people see the characters from their favorite movies (whether good or bad), it helps bring those movies alive, it helps ignite the joy they had in watching those movies. Tell me when you were a child you never wanted to be Darth Vader? What would your reaction have been if the 501st existed then and you had the chance to meet these characters? I really think the disconnect is when people read too much into people just having a good time.
Comment by TR-3456 — July 14, 2008 @ 2:31 am
I really think the disconnect is when people read too much into people just having a good time.
…again, by dressing up as Space Nazis specificially named after the Sturmabteilung.
Comment by Andrew Weiss — July 14, 2008 @ 8:24 am
Wow. I had no idea this was all waiting for me!
First, thanks to the 501st guys for coming in and telling a bit about themselves. At the risk of muddying the waters further, let me try and get back tot he original post.
I didn’t say the 501st guys (or anyone dressing as a stormtrooper for conventions or whatever) was a fascist. I was talking about the disconnect between members of a fascist (as presented in the movies) organization and the amount of love people (and not just geeks) seem to have for them.
Do I think that it’s a bit weird for Stormtroopers to be in a 4th of July parade? Yeah, I do. Since someone’s already brought up the Nazi’s, let’s just say that if folks wanted to show their love for Raiders of the Lost Ark (a movie I totally dig) by dressing up as the bad guys from that, I’d kinda be wigged out. Now granted, that’s a bit apples and oranges, since there weren’t ever any really real Imperial Stormtroopers. But I still think there’s something unsettling about having death squads — even fictional ones — march in freedom parades.
I applaud the 501st’s charitable works and the irony there of the Imperial Troops raising money for sick children is pretty amusing. But a couple of you folks talk about the joy and smiles you bring to kids and that sort of gets at the thing I’m addressing here. How is that fascist footsoldiers have come to bring joy and smiles to people?
These are the questions I was asking in my original post, and wondering if there’s something more to this. Geeks, by and large, DO have fascist tendencies. There is a strong fascist subtext (and often just-plain-text) in a lot of geek culture.
Someone mentioned “V for Vendetta” which I have to honestly suggest you read again if you think it’s a cut-and-dried diatribe against fascism.
I think the only one who has really missed the point here is the guy who somehow takes away from all this that I’m a book-burning neoconservative that worships Ann Coulter. If I’m somehow giving that impression to people then something has gone horribly, horribly wrong.
Comment by Dave — July 14, 2008 @ 8:43 am
I’m going to jump in very quickly – the troopers at the Montpelier Parade (pictured in the first image – BTW, can you please credit us with the picture? Either 501neg or Keelia Liptak, the photographer) was my idea.
As has been mentioned, the 501st does a lot of charity work all over the world. On that day, the annual July 3rd Parade, we were helping out the Kellogg Hubbard Library’s children library – they had a walker puppet and a batman float, as well as some other things. That’s the sort of thing that we do.
True, the storm troopers from the movies do represent a faceless army of a somewhat oppressive government(keep in mind, all you see is in the movies), but 99% of everyone we come into contact with doesn’t make that distinction that Storm Troopers = Fascism. We represent, especially to children/teens, Star Wars. All the ideas, experiences, images and emotions connected to those movies, wrapped up in a person. Not only us – there are people who do this for the rebels as well. Storm Troopers, however, seem to be the most popular, probably because of how they look, but they’re very recognizable as well.
I’ve heard of people expressing concern over the fact that we do portray bad guys. Getting out on the street in the midst of people, for parades, events or anything else like that, people see us and think: Holy $4!t, a storm trooper!
You do bring up some interesting points – there is a cultural fascination with the ‘bad guys’. I personally chalk it up to them having the cooler uniforms, but I think that it’s a big stretch to extend a cultural interest such as this and extend that into a supposition that we are existing in a fascist culture – as far as things are? Politically, we could be, and have been, far worse off in our history. Some of our founding fathers introduced the Alien and Sedition act, which cramped free speech. Abraham Lincoln declared martial law, for example. I doubt that (and I don’t think that you are suggesting, at least too much) that the 501st parading around is the precursor to a political revolution…
Comment by Andrew — July 14, 2008 @ 9:28 am
Neither does Dave L. sit in his mother’s basement. It’s actually a very nice New England house that he keeps with his charming wife and lovable dog.
He does, however, sit in front of the computer naked.
Comment by David Thiel — July 14, 2008 @ 9:35 am
About the whole charitable giving thing: sure, it’s nice that you collect a few thousand bucks dressing as space Nazis, but let’s keep it in perspective. If it was all about helping sick kids, there are more focused and efficient ways of accomplishing that.
The other day I was having a conversation with a coworker who specializes in educational outreach. We were talking about the Rotarians, another service organization that dabbles in charitable giving. Her perspective was that what they did was nice, and it made them feel good, but it was a literal drop in the bucket.
I’m not saying that the charitable efforts aren’t sincere, but rather that they’re an afterthought to the real reason for the organization: amortizing the cost of space Nazi armor.
About the Jawa thing: I’ve seen mass gatherings of the 501st at Star Wars Celebrations II and III. Yes, there were a smattering of non-Imperials there. But for every innocent desert nomad there were sixty armored, jackbooted soldiers. Your branding (as Jeff S. points out) is based around the stormtrooper image, make no mistake.
Comment by David Thiel — July 14, 2008 @ 9:55 am
Wow, quite a stir, Dave.
Its wild to me that everyone seems to be totally missing the point. I mean, I get being a little defensive about your hobby, but c’mon storm trooper guys. Isn’t it just a little funny and ironic?
Comment by Jerm — July 14, 2008 @ 9:59 am
It is pretty amusing to read how far some people are taking this – It is an issue that does come up, and people in the 501st are very proud at what they do.
I mainly take issue, and I’m sure, most of the other members, with the Space Nazi thing – virtually no one associates us with that sort of imagery, which is good, because it’s not what we’re about.
As far as keeping things in perspective, yes, there’s a lot of ways in which to help sick kids. A lot of us have found that this is a very good way to donate our time and energy, and it is, despite what some people see in the costume, a very effective means of doing so. I’ll point people to this trailer: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ev3-Z5Cccwo and http://youtube.com/watch?v=6eS_5a8JGIs, for a film Heart of an Empire, an upcoming documentary on the group.
Charity work for us is not a way to offset the price of the armor. It legitimizes what we do, and makes us stand out from other fan groups, but saying that we only doing for that reason is insulting – I look for events to troop at because I want to help the community. In no way is this an afterthought for me. It wasn’t the primary reason for my joining up, and for a number of other members, but it was damn high on the list.
Comment by Andrew — July 14, 2008 @ 10:35 am
About the Jawa thing: I’ve seen mass gatherings of the 501st at Star Wars Celebrations II and III. Yes, there were a smattering of non-Imperials there. But for every innocent desert nomad there were sixty armored, jackbooted soldiers.
We are going for screen accuracy here. ;-)
Comment by TR-3456 — July 14, 2008 @ 10:46 am
“But I still think there’s something unsettling about having death squads — even fictional ones — march in freedom parades.”
As has been stated, we did this to support a local library in conjunction with the Vermont Cardboard Technical Institute. Personally I’m a bit more unsettled by a secessionist movement marching in a July 4 parade than a bunch of movie characters, even Nazis in a Raiders of the Lost Ark float/group. Because they’re there to represent movie characters, not actual Nazis. If you had an American Nazi Party group or a bunch of Klansmen gathering cheers and applause, then I’d agree we’d have a problem.
“How is that fascist footsoldiers have come to bring joy and smiles to people?”
Because most people don’t look at Stormtroopers and think “Holy $#!+! Fascist footsoldier!” They think “Holy $#!+! Star Wars!” We aren’t in it for the ideology Stormtroopers represent, and most people (and no one else I’ve come across) associates us with that ideology either. They look at us and see movie characters, not political henchmen (or hitmen, if you prefer). You could put any Star Wars character in front of them, whether good, bad, neutral, or other, and you’ll get the same reaction: People will be excited at seeing an authentic-looking Star Wars character, especially if he/she remains in the character of the character that is being portrayed.
“I think the only one who has really missed the point here is the guy who somehow takes away from all this that I’m a book-burning neoconservative that worships Ann Coulter. If I’m somehow giving that impression to people then something has gone horribly, horribly wrong.”
I didn’t get that impression at all. I got the impression that you were quite the opposite of an Ann Coulter-worshiping neoconservative. But to be fair to him, I actually have heard conspiracy theories that Bush is really a reptilian alien who carried out 9/11 (seriously).
Now, I see, and, to a certain extent agree with, your assertion that there is a cultural obsession with the bad guys, because let’s face it, they usually do have cooler uniforms (one exception is the Gondorians in Lord of the Rings). But to say that this makes the country willing to accept the implementation of fascism is stretching it way too far. Even if the fascists carried E-11 blasters.
Let me ask you a question: A rising number of people are dressing as the Master Chief from the Halo universe. Does this mean the country is willing to establish a military dictatorship that kidnaps and biologically experiments on children so they can create super-soldiers to crush anyone who opposes their rule? Or is it just a bunch of geeks with too much time and money on their hands having a good time?
Comment by Totalitarian Trooper — July 14, 2008 @ 11:31 am
HAMLET
Madam, how like you this play?
QUEEN GERTRUDE
The lady protests too much, methinks.
Comment by Dorian — July 14, 2008 @ 11:41 am
Technically it’s “The lady doth protest to much, methinks.” ;)
Comment by Totalitarian Trooper — July 14, 2008 @ 11:50 am
Let me ask you a question: A rising number of people are dressing as the Master Chief from the Halo universe. Does this mean the country is willing to establish a military dictatorship that kidnaps and biologically experiments on children so they can create super-soldiers to crush anyone who opposes their rule? Or is it just a bunch of geeks with too much time and money on their hands having a good time?
Unfortunately, I’m the one geek who hasn’t played Halo, so I can’t really get with the analogy.
The thing is, at no point did I accuse the members of the 501st of being fascist themselves. (If other commenters here or elsewhere have done this or questioned the sincerity of the 501’s charitable works, tplease take that issue up with that person.) I certainly didn’t imply that “the government is using the 501st Legion as a symbol of fascism at parades and stuff and that all of our charity work is a cover up for our really real ideals.” which is how one person linking to this blog post summarized it.
I am talking about how prevalent interest in fascism is in geek culture (and non-geek culture) and how things like Stormtroopers, who represent such things, have become watered down to the point where they’re standing in as family-friendly, sexy, or entertaining. That’s my point. The 501 in particular was mentioned in passing as I was pointing out how prevalent people dressed as Stormtroopers have become. I’m neither the first person nor the last to make any of these points.
Comment by Dave — July 14, 2008 @ 12:06 pm
“Technically” it depends on which edition of the play you’re using for reference, as there is no such thing as an intact, authoritative edition of the complete work.
Comment by Dorian — July 14, 2008 @ 12:15 pm
I am talking about how prevalent interest in fascism is in geek culture (and non-geek culture) and how things like Stormtroopers, who represent such things, have become watered down to the point where they’re standing in as family-friendly, sexy, or entertaining. That’s my point. The 501 in particular was mentioned in passing as I was pointing out how prevalent people dressed as Stormtroopers have become. I’m neither the first person nor the last to make any of these points.
And now we get to the good stuff, and it’s an interesting thing to examine.
I think to some extent, you can argue that aspects of fandom is really a rather progressive movement, and that much of sci-fi and fantasy can be looked at as such as well.
Comment by Andrew — July 14, 2008 @ 12:30 pm
Fair point, Dorian. I’ll concede that. It’s just the versions I’ve seen use “doth protest.” Granted, I’m not a literary geek, so my knowledge is far from complete.
Comment by Totalitarian Trooper — July 14, 2008 @ 12:46 pm
“Unfortunately, I’m the one geek who hasn’t played Halo, so I can’t really get with the analogy.”
Oh. Well in that case I would recommend playing them if you have an Xbox, I really enjoyed them.
In regards to the rest of geek culture, I can’t really discuss that in detail, because I never got into comic books (although I did see V for Vendetta – does that count? =P). So I can’t say whether or not there is a prevalence of fascism in geek culture. Even if it is commonly found, however, it does not mean that geeks approve of fascism or want to see it emulated in the real world. It makes sense that fascists would be frequently used for bad guys. Who better to make the enemy than evil Nazis or fascists? That’s an idea that is definitely not limited to geek culture – the idea that fascists can be universally applied and accepted as evil.
But to get to your point about people in Stormtrooper costumes getting people to accept watered-down fascism, that I do disagree with. Again, I and several others have said it before, we dress up not to represent the Galactic Empire or its policies, but to represent Star Wars as a series of movies. People don’t see a Stormtrooper at a convention and think “Hey! What are those fanatical minions of a totalitarian Empire doing here?” They think “Hey! Star Wars characters!” I’d get the same reaction if I dressed as a Stormtrooper, Darth Vader, a Jawa, a Rebel Fleet Trooper, or Admiral Ackbar. People are excited to see a screen-accurate movie character, they don’t care what the character did in the movie. In the movies, yes, Stormtroopers represent the totalitarian Empire, but in real life they represent the movies.
And I did not saying you’re the only person who thinks this, I’m saying you are the first person I have encountered who does feel this way.
Comment by Totalitarian Trooper — July 14, 2008 @ 12:54 pm
>>Charity work for us is not a way to offset the price of the armor. It legitimizes what we do, and makes us stand out from other fan groups, but saying that we only doing for that reason is insulting…<<
And those might be fair points if I had written either of those things, instead of what I actually wrote: that the real reason for the ORGANIZATION, not the charity work, is to justify owning a very expensive costume that would otherwise be worn perhaps a couple of times a year. I’d argue that “it legitimizes what we do” is entirely the point of the 501st. Without it, you couldn’t wear your armor to the sweetcorn festival without people treating you like they did the alternate juror who attended the Whitewater trial in full Starfleet garb.
Comment by David Thiel — July 14, 2008 @ 1:49 pm
Ah, that clarifies things a little more, but I don’t think that it’s accurate. People don’t buy the outfits to join the organization, but the organization exists because we all have something in common, Star Wars costuming. In this case yes, the organized effort to promote charity and things of that nature is what legitimizes the group.
Comment by Andrew — July 14, 2008 @ 2:13 pm
Hey if it means I get a free set of that cool white plastic armor by joining the Fascist cause, sign
Comment by Bort McShevis — July 14, 2008 @ 3:55 pm
me up
doodz – the commentz windo is like broke.
Oh yeah and its like really hot where I live, so can I get a big green lizard to ride to work too?
Comment by Bort McShevis — July 14, 2008 @ 3:56 pm
Ah, that clarifies things a little more, but I don’t think that it’s accurate. People don’t buy the outfits to join the organization, but the organization exists because we all have something in common, Star Wars costuming. In this case yes, the organized effort to promote charity and things of that nature is what legitimizes the group.
Again, I never made the claim that people bought the outfits to join the organization. The rest of the above paragraph pretty much confirms the claims I actually did make. The costumes came first and the charity eventually followed. Because doing it the other way ’round would be silly.
Comment by David Thiel — July 14, 2008 @ 4:53 pm
You haven’t been listening to Obama. He is the new face of fascism.
Comment by Lee — July 14, 2008 @ 6:14 pm
there were stormtroopers at the Texas Renaissance Festival, weird place for a storm trooper, but whatever.
it is harmless fun, if they bring a smile to just one child, especially one in a hospital, then it is all justified
Comment by bob — July 14, 2008 @ 8:21 pm
“Now imagine that these troops are outfitted exactly like Stormtroopers from Star Wars.
What percentage of geeks would declare that this was awesome?
What percentage of non geeks?”
To answer both questions, I would say, “Nearly none.”
Because at that point, it would cease to be fun. It would cease to be fantasy and become reality, and the entire point of dressing up as space Nazis is to briefly escape reality, not emulate it.
Villains have an inherent appeal to most people, not just because they have the coolest outfits — this is true whether we’re talking about Darth Vader, Cobra Commander or Ming the Merciless — but because the villains are the characters who can almost always act without fear of conscience or consequence. In point of fact, it is the fantasy of being free to act without being bound by social constraint that drives even a fair percentage of heroes in popular culture, from Batman to Dirty harry Callahan. However, although most people might enjoy a daydream or a weekend fantasy roleplaying the character who, say, whips out the .44 and blasts the bad guys away, most people also understand that while the fantasy may be appealing and even empowering, the reality of having a policeman who disregards all proper police procedure and grimly dispenses hot lead justice is, shall we say, somewhat undesirable.
So it is with the Empire’s Finest. If you say that Lucas is guilty of using a convenient cinematic shorthand to establish the baddies as baddies in his space opera, I can’t argue with that. Calling the troops of the evil empire “Stormtroopers” instantly tells you all you need to know about the Empire — to begin with, that it is evil, uncompromisingly, thoroughly evil… as is fitting for a fairy tale. Nazis have become our modern point of reference for evil — and with good reason.
To be fair, Lucas is hardly unique in the use of this shorthand — in fact, it all too often enters political discourse inappropriately. If there is a danger in the idea of fascism losing some of its impact, it lies more in the idea of labeling, say, George W. Bush a fascist or a Nazi, when in fact — honestly — he is far less fascist in policy and practice than either Abraham Lincoln or FDR. Like in “Star Wars”, Nazi has become the go-to phrase when you want to utterly paint your opponent as evil (and by default, yourself as noble) and has begun to become a meaningless term, right alongside “racist” and “greed”.
Which brings us back to stormtroopers. It’s quite simply the difference between fantasy and reality. Fictional agents of a nonexistent space regime are no more sinister than any other popular villains or anti-heroes, be they crime lords (Scarface), psychopaths (Hannibal Lecter), rogue cops (Dirty Harry), or terrorists (COBRAAAAAAAAAA!). Because the characters have become iconic does not mean that the ideology has somehow become palatable — the characters evoke the fun and drama and thrills of the fictional worlds they inhabit, not their philosophies or political agendas. If children (or geeks, or movie fans, or all of the above) cheer when confronted with a living representation of a bad guy from the movies — space Nazi or not — they are not cheering the underlying ideologies of those characters, but simply cheering the fond memories and excitement that the films themselves evoke. To assume anything else is to credit people with far too little capacity to distinguish the escapist fantasy from the uncomfortable reality.
Comment by Ultrahumanite — July 14, 2008 @ 9:16 pm
Wow. Things got a bit heated over here, eh?
Let me say this: Dave, I think you make a good point. Over the last 8 years, we’ve seen Americans accept the erosion of their rights and freedoms all in the name of the “War on Terror.” For Christ’s sake, we let the Patriot Act get passed. What was that about? Bush has been using “You’re either with us or against us” for 7 years now, and no one blinks. I believe it was Obi Wan who said “Only Sith deal in absolutes.”
I think the “asshole” tag on this post got the troopers gander up. Not saying that was directed at us, but I’m sure you can see where that’d get folks riled.
At any rate, I honestly believe we have more to worry about from Disney. Seriously. While we can pretty much count out white armor death squads marching through our streets, we can’t count out mega corporations twisting people’s minds from birth. I’ve said for years if all the characters in the Disneyworld Main Street parade suddenly unfurled double hammer banners and began goose stepping, people would not panic.
We’re a nation of sheep.
One last point, which really brings home the irony: The whole story arc behind the some what painful Star Wars prequels was Lucas attempting to illustrate just how easily good people and good intentions can slip into fascism and with just a little prodding. Anakin had good intentions, you know?
Comment by Guy in white — July 14, 2008 @ 10:18 pm
C’mon, that’s like saying the Pirates of the Caribbean movies make us more tolerant of rape and murder.
Comment by Facist Supporter — July 14, 2008 @ 11:05 pm
“Over the last 8 years, we’ve seen Americans accept the erosion of their rights and freedoms all in the name of the “War on Terror.””
Excuse me? How about over the last century? Erosion of freedom goes at least back to the famously progressive racist Woodrow Wilson, with the passage of the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 (which led directly to the Great depression, incidentally) right through the New Deal, steadily through LBJ’s “Great Society”, right up to Bill Clinton, who, according to New York Times, was guilty of “stripping the courts of their power to protect individuals from official abuse” and “sponsored a counterterrorism bill that became law with a number of repressive features in it” including provisions that had nothing to do with terrorism and everything to do with “gutting the power of Federal courts to examine state criminal convictions, on writs of habeas corpus, to make sure there was no violation of constitutional rights” and deporting legal immigrants after arbitrarily branding them “terrorists” and giving them no recourse to obtain or examine the evidence against them. This in addition to a litany of other laws and executive orders that prompted John Heilemann to declare that “[T]he Clinton administration has managed to compile a record on individual rights and freedoms – from habeas corpus to gay marriage and from wiretapping to file-gathering – that is breathtaking in both the breadth and the depth of its awfulness. Indeed, so atrocious is Clinton’s record, it can plausibly be argued that he is the worst civil liberties president since Richard Nixon.”
Oh, wait, hell… what am I thinking? Clinton was a POPULAR president.. I apologize. You only started losing rights when Bush signed the Patriot Act. It’s all George’s fault. Nothing much happened before he got into office… it’s only the last eight years that your rights have been slowly stolen away from you. My mistake. Please carry on.
Comment by Ultrahumanite — July 14, 2008 @ 11:20 pm
Ultrahumanite, I do not disagree with you. I was merely focusing on more current events. This country has a piss poor record from it’s inception. No argument here.
To quote the late, great George Carlin “Bill of Rights? You think you have rights? You have no rights. What you have is a bill of privileges.”
Perhaps we’d all be happier if we just cam on out and embraced the fascist in all of us.
Comment by Guy in white — July 14, 2008 @ 11:26 pm
Ultrahumanite, you should also consider that a lot of people who voted for Bill Clinton back in the 90s were a lot less informed than we are today. The internet while in existence didn’t start to become the phenomena it has become today until after Bill Clinton was elected into his 2nd term. I for one am much more informed about the political scene than I was 12 years ago. There are many things that you mentioned that until you mentioned them I had no idea BIll Clinton had done them. Then again I am not one to linger on things that are in the past. There are also many of us who are not as versed in certain parts of history. I mean I know enough to pass a High School Civics but beyond that I haven’t had the interest to delve into the inner workings of things like “The Great Depression” or even the presidents of the early 20th century. For those like me the last 8-12 years are our defining times, and unfortunately the past 8 years have been full of political disasters cause in part by Bill Clinton, but also by Bush’s misguided arrogance during his administration. The ONLY thing he has done right the entire time he’s been in administration was going into Afghanistan. Now only he had kept his attention on the real target I probably wouldn’t be so pissed at him.
Now back to the topic at hand. I’ll say I don’t agree with how Dave wrote this article. I think he could have chosen a better way to discuss the problem of the American citizen having their freedoms stripped away from a government that seems to becoming more and more fascist as the weeks and months go by. We do have a problem, and we as a country have to realize that we have a problem and that it needs to be fixed. We need new blood in government. There are too many lifetime congressmen and women. We need new ideas to deal with world around us, and we most importantly have to stop thinking we are better than everyone else, and that our way is the only right way because we are not, and it isn’t. I think we’ll figure it out in the end. (well I sure hope we do).
Comment by TR-3456 — July 15, 2008 @ 3:09 am
“Then again I am not one to linger on things that are in the past.”
Which is true of too many people in this country. Which is why we will be doomed to repeat the past again, and again, and again…
“For those like me the last 8-12 years are our defining times…”
Which is exactly my point. You are looking to the last 8 years to define a slow rot which began over a century ago. George Bush is not the instigator, nor is Bill Clinton, nor is any living politician. These people are the logical end progression of policies and practices that were initiated before their fathers were born, such as the establishment of government school systems (which were designed, by the open admission of the men who designed it, to create a populace of compliant workers without critical thinking skills) to the methods and influence of Edward Bernays and his ilk…
Stormtrooper armor is not what makes us more accepting of fascism. Things like welfare, terrorism, affirmative action, government subsidies, and climate change science ARE what makes us more accepting of fascism. No one cheers when Imperial Stormtroopers march because they have a secret fetish for fascism — but they are exposing their desire to have their lives controlled by a faceless, all-powerful state when they cheer ideas like universal heath care. As Mencken said, “The desire to save humanity is almost always a false front for the desire to rule it.”
Comment by Ultrahumanite — July 15, 2008 @ 8:59 am
I think this is a bit of a stretch. You’re talking about people dressing up as fictional characters as a literal expression of their core beliefs. I doubt anyone is going to argue that a bunch of people dressing up as Captain America is a mass show of support for genetic modification of humans or a bunch of people dressing up as Batman is a call to arms for vigilantes. These people you show in the photos have taken a symbol that was initially negative, and turned it into something positive. The 501st does all kinds of charity work. You’re looking purely at the symbol rather than the intention behind the symbol and that is quite frankly a very lazy way to try to make an argument.
Comment by Benjamin — July 15, 2008 @ 9:06 am
Once again, at no point have I said that people dressing as stormtroopers in general or the 501st in particular are fascists.
What I am pointing out is a casual attitude towards fascism in both geek and general culture, and one indication of this, to me, is the fact that stormtroopers are seen as harmless, sexy, funny, and innocent. That is my argument.
Comment by Dave — July 15, 2008 @ 9:16 am
Have you even watched Star Wars, Dave? Stormtroopers were always seen as harmless. In the movies, they couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn and were ultimately defeated by teddy bears. They were just cannon fodder for the heroes like countless other faceless villains going back to the beginning of cinema. They’ve been the butt of jokes since 1977. There’s nothing remotely fascist about them other than the vague idea that the Emperor is a bad guy and the work for the Emperor so that’s supposed to make them bad. If anything is causing a casual attitude towards fascism, it’s the way the way people like you and the politicians and “journalists” in Washington bandy the word around like it’s a catch all term for people and things you don’t like. Everyone some yokel Senator doesn’t agree with is “tantamount to Hitler” and disagreeing with the news organization’s slant is “supporting Islamo-fascism or terrorism”. The meaning behind the word fascism has completely changed.
Comment by Benjamin — July 15, 2008 @ 9:27 am
I suppose I’m reading too much into the totalitarian Empire led by the Emperor who dissolves the senate and relies on fear to keep everyone in line, fear of his battle station, the “Death Star” (illustrated by destroying a defenseless planet), and his faceless footsoldiers who dress like skeletons and are named after Nazis. Not Fascism, you say? I suppose there was a kinder, gentler side to the Empire? Something more…compassionate?
Comment by Dave — July 15, 2008 @ 9:31 am
That’s not my point. Yes, the Empire in Star Wars was bad, but so were hundreds of other similar film villains that could easily be interchanged. Why dumb your argument down to film symbolism and a theoretical action by the President when there are so many real life examples of complacency towards fascism?
Comment by Benjamin — July 15, 2008 @ 9:58 am
Dewd, I can’t believe you didn’t include the Elvis Stormtrooper (found at most cons) and the stripper Trooper who wears a pink thong, garters and heels.
I think part of the appeal is that you know that 94% of these guys are married computer engineers from California. Heck, at Dragoncon a couple of years ago there was an unofficial contest to bag a stormtrooper by a couple of succubi. Apparently their prey all blushed, held up wedding rings and ran off! So much for the bad boy appeal.
Which kind of says it all, they’re bad boys but not really.
Comment by Kar — July 15, 2008 @ 10:06 am
I have addressed those things, Benjamin. This blog is nearly six years old and I’ve talked about that quite a bit. This was a single blog post with a single point to it that has blown up thanks to some linkage elsewhere. You’re free to go through the archives if you like. My purpose with this post was “Stormtroopers: What’s THAT About?” Sadly, the margin of this blog post is too small to also contain the proof of the theorem.
Comment by Dave — July 15, 2008 @ 10:08 am
Those troopers stand for nothing more than the cult that is Star Wars.
Oh, and just so you know, the good guys have a similar group called the Rebel Legion.
Hello there, reality check. You should do one.
It’s just a movie.
Like someone else already mentioned; why not look at the real threats out there.
That said; your blog makes for a good laugh.
Comment by Sienn — July 15, 2008 @ 10:23 am
I guess it’s my misunderstanding for reading your thoughts in the context provided.
Comment by Benjamin — July 15, 2008 @ 10:26 am
Many people have too much time too loose.
I can’t even think about how much time and effort you’ve put in this debate.
Hello, it’s a movie … and a fu***** good one.
Sorry dude, but use your time on more intelligent stuff.
Comment by Nick — July 15, 2008 @ 12:30 pm
Some of my fellow 501sters might be a bit amused at what I have to say here, considering the position I hold in the organization. I would actually agree with the author’s assertion that the cheering we get and the smiles on kids’ faces might be an indication of the populace’s predisposition to accept elements of fascism without question. I did not read that he equates us to an underground fascist network, slowly undermining society from within. I think that’s a leap to a conclusion that we’re making on our own.
The question here is “WHY are the kids so enamored with us?” Well, to answer to my own question right now, I’ll say it: the Stormtrooper armor is cooler-looking and is attention-getting. That’s all: vain narcissism, if you will. Yes, there is a disconnect between the representation of the fictional characters we portray, and the motivations for why we do it. That dichotomy is illustrated by one of our cherished mottos: “Bad Guys Who Do Good.”
We work 150% harder on polishing our image to the communities and organizations we work with to the point of making people such as the author and some of the commenters wonder how it is that society has gotten so accepting of the “bad guy” image. As a kid, I always loved collecting the Cobra figures because … you guessed it … they LOOKED cooler than the good guys. This is a disconnect that I have no answer for.
The part that usually gets under our skin the most easily is, of course, the apparent equating of “us” to Nazis. At an objective level, it’s true. The CHARACTER of the Emperor can easily equal Hitler, Vader can easily be the equivalent of Himmler, and so on. If we, the 501st, are going to continue to enjoy what we do, we need to remember that those equivalents exist, but that we as the PEOPLE are not them.
People are cheering for the images of soldiers of a fascist regime, and the author is asking “why.” What does that say about society at large? For our part in the 501st, we don’t have the answer to that, because our interest stops at the appreciation of the movies and not reading much further into the symbolism and imagery beyond the spaceships and laser guns. Call us short-sighted for it, or what have you. Some of you might even believe that we’re contributing to the disintegration of society that way, but we do what we can because we have the cooler-looking costumes.
Even though they’re hot as hell inside.
Comment by Rome — July 15, 2008 @ 3:34 pm
Upon closer examination of my own Star Wars and stormtrooper related merchandise, I have to confess the truth: We (as a culture) tend to overlook the symbolism if we think it’s cool.
I bought a T shirt at Wal Mart a while back of a stormtrooper helmet above two crossed bones. That was the symbol used by the SS. And I bought it because it was cool.
Not cool.
Comment by Guy in white — July 15, 2008 @ 9:29 pm
[...] entered and seemingly left. That blog post of mine concerning what I feel is a more casual attitude towards [...]
Pingback by Dave Ex Machina - A Thousand Points of Articulation » Imperial Troops Have Entered the Base! Imperial Troops Have Entered the *ksssshhhxxx* — July 17, 2008 @ 6:21 am
The whole view of the Empire and their loyal troops, the Stormtroopers, as evil is completely false and based solely on a baseless piece of Rebellion propoganda. To get the truth you must check out http://www.adpov.net
TD-0013 will set you start on who the real bad guys are!
Comment by Slacker — July 17, 2008 @ 11:30 am
Storm troopers on parade = raging killer bulls as piniatas = the devil in red tights and a stupid pitchfork.
Ya take the most evil, scary, dangerous thing, and make fun of it, disarm it. Piniatas were the plaything of rural cattle-farming kids of mexico, whacking the danger out of the killer on the loose, until the candy guts spill out.
The devil in tights was a way of taking the one authentic power against Christians and holding him up to ridicule.
No one would ever REALLY want to run into storm troopers. Or a bull. Or the devil.
Comment by Bruce Meyer — August 7, 2008 @ 2:56 pm
Äh, das muß man jetzt nicht verstehen?
aber, macht weiter so!!!
Ich bin auf deiner Seite, Karl Braun…
Comment by VestiFali — July 25, 2009 @ 2:28 pm